Rear axle retaining bolts

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berns68
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Rear axle retaining bolts

#1

Post by berns68 » 13 Aug 2018, 20:56

I recently replaced both rear wheel bearings after the right side one failed. At the same time I also replaced the axle seals. Well apparently the seal on the right was either defective or failed somehow as I am now leaking differential fluid on that side. When I removed the tire to inspect what was going on I also discovered that the axle retaining nuts were loose even though I had torqued them to the recommended 35-40 ft. lbs. Now I am wondering if these four nuts and bolts had to have some type of thread lock applied before being torqued down. I’ve ordered new seals but should I also order new axle retaining bolts and nuts too? Just curious what others have done after changing the bearings.
Mike

1968 Standard Hardtop, Nordic Blue
302 F code, updated to 4V
Originally 1 of 2
ROTM May 2014
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3854
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cyclonelou
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Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#2

Post by cyclonelou » 13 Aug 2018, 22:57

I can only suggest you double check your torque readings and make sure your bolts are long enough for full thread engagement with the nut. NyLock nuts will help although the nuts and bolts should be fine thread.If you feel your torque wrench is not accurate tighten the nuts really good and snug.
Before you install the axle coat the lip of the seal with just a touch of wheel bearing grease so as to not "burn in' the new seal.
If everything seems to be proper and a seal leaks the axle may be worn just enough where that seal rides.You can try another axle or FederalMogul/Moog/National Redi-Sleeve, a brass sleeve designed to take up the slack in that worn area.It slips right on but you'll need to know if the axle is a 28 or 31 spline piece. 28 spline part is 99820. Part known also as "Speedi-Sleeve".From NAPA it was like$60.00ish but it has worked for me.

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BossElim69
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Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#3

Post by BossElim69 » 14 Aug 2018, 04:21

Mike,
Go with new bolts and check it often to make sure it doesn't loosen up on you again. The bolts shouldn't loosen up unless some damage was done when the bearing failed. The bolts holds the retaining plate and the plate takes up the side load from the axle when going around a corner. No other load should be applied to the bolts. Does the new bearing fit in the rear end tube snug? Do you have any vibration? Put the axle on a set of V blocks to check it for straightness. Do what is suggested above if you need to stop the lube from leaking. In the race car I run inner seals that keep the lube in the differential vs going down the axle tubes.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf- ... gI9fvD_BwE
Brian Carpenter, President CATS classic Cougar club
67 Cougar road course racer
67 Cougar project car
67 Cougar GT
68 XR7-G trailer queen restoration.
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69 XR7 428CJ 4spd
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catlover
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Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#4

Post by catlover » 14 Aug 2018, 07:47

My thoughts on this would be, the bearing were never fully seated, and after driving the car it slid the rest of the way in causing the bolts to be loose.

This has happened.
There is never time to do it right, but always time to do it over

67 Cougar restomod
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berns68
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Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#5

Post by berns68 » 14 Aug 2018, 08:08

cyclonelou - your point about applying grease to the seal prior to installing the axle might have been the culprit. The axle was dry when I installed that side. Weeks later when I did the drivers side I distinctly remember that there was still fluid on the axle when I installed it.

Brian - On Friday morning of the Springfield show I had the axle out again by 6:30 am and made new backing plate and retaining plate gaskets thinking they might be the problem. I had everything back together by 8:30 am. The leak was considerably less when I arrived in Springfield but still there. When I returned home I removed the tire again and all the nuts were tight but I was still able to apply additional torque to get back to the original 40 ft. lbs. However gasket compression might have been the reason for that. As for vibration there is none. After I install the new seal I'm wondering if I could double nut the retaining bolts to lock them in place. I see no conflict with any of the brake components.

I appreciate the help provided.
Mike

1968 Standard Hardtop, Nordic Blue
302 F code, updated to 4V
Originally 1 of 2
ROTM May 2014
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3854
C.A.T.S. Classic Cougar Club member #16-10
CCOA member #9618

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Don Rush
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Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#6

Post by Don Rush » 14 Aug 2018, 10:12

You might have a bent axle.

cyclonelou
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Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#7

Post by cyclonelou » 14 Aug 2018, 10:36

You should not need to double nut those bolts and if torqued properly those nuts should not back off.
You'll have to start at square 1 and find out what's wrong and it may be something right in front of you. It's happened to all of us.

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BossElim69
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Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#8

Post by BossElim69 » 14 Aug 2018, 10:41

Mike,

You have two separate but related problems.
1. Oil leak, The gasket you made that goes between the retaining plate and axle housing. The purpose of that gasket is just to keep dust and dirt out of the bearing. It's purpose is not to seal and retain oil. The bearing is sealed and should have no rear end lube reaching the bearing. The oil is retained by the lip seal that goes before the bearing in the axle tube. Take it back apart and see if the seal is damaged from being dry or damaged when installed. It's very easy to deform that seal when installing. (I've done it a few times).

2. Retaining bolts. Their should be no reason to double nut or do something other then stock on the retaining bolts to keep them tight. As Catlover suggested maybe you didn't have the axle/bearing seated in all the way so the bolts were never completely tight to begin with. I'm running stock retainer bolts on the road-course race car which is loading the retainer plate 10 time more then it will ever happen on the street with no issues.

With no vibration I highly doubt you have a bent axle.
Brian Carpenter, President CATS classic Cougar club
67 Cougar road course racer
67 Cougar project car
67 Cougar GT
68 XR7-G trailer queen restoration.
68 Restomod
69 Boss 302 Eliminator
69 XR7 390 survivor
69 XR7 428CJ 4spd
70 Boss 302 Mustang
1993 Harley Davidson
2004 F250 diesel
2004 Jeep Overland 4.7L H.O.
78 Ford F 150 Ranger
08 Cobalt SS

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berns68
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Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#9

Post by berns68 » 14 Aug 2018, 13:11

BossElim69 wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 10:41
Mike,

You have two separate but related problems.
1. Oil leak, The gasket you made that goes between the retaining plate and axle housing. The purpose of that gasket is just to keep dust and dirt out of the bearing. It's purpose is not to seal and retain oil. The bearing is sealed and should have no rear end lube reaching the bearing. The oil is retained by the lip seal that goes before the bearing in the axle tube. Take it back apart and see if the seal is damaged from being dry or damaged when installed. It's very easy to deform that seal when installing. (I've done it a few times).

2. Retaining bolts. Their should be no reason to double nut or do something other then stock on the retaining bolts to keep them tight. As Catlover suggested maybe you didn't have the axle/bearing seated in all the way so the bolts were never completely tight to begin with. I'm running stock retainer bolts on the road-course race car which is loading the retainer plate 10 time more then it will ever happen on the street with no issues.

With no vibration I highly doubt you have a bent axle.
Brian,

It's possible that I did not get the bearing seated completely if the bearing retainer was not completely pressed on. I had a local shop install them for me. The other thought I've had since I wrote this is I might have been given the 31 spline seal instead of the 28 I ordered. If the shaft diameters are different then I'd assume it would leak. I had picked up the seals on different days and I could see a mix up at the Napa store. I'll take some pics when I get the new seals and replace the one in place now.
Mike

1968 Standard Hardtop, Nordic Blue
302 F code, updated to 4V
Originally 1 of 2
ROTM May 2014
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3854
C.A.T.S. Classic Cougar Club member #16-10
CCOA member #9618

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berns68
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Location: Plainfield, Il

Re: Rear axle retaining bolts

#10

Post by berns68 » 16 Aug 2018, 09:05

Ok, new seal has been installed and the only thing I noticed was considerable wear from the axle bearing retaining ring on the old seal. So I might not have completely seated it when I initially installed and when I put the axle back on and tightened the retaining nuts the bearing was not properly seated. So after driving for a while it worked itself in place and that's why the nuts were lose??. Anyway here are the pics I took. Note the old seal (silver) is only deformed from removing it.
axle seal 1.jpg
axle seal 1.jpg (90.39 KiB) Viewed 195 times
axle seal 3.png
axle seal 3.png (445.47 KiB) Viewed 195 times
axle seal 4.jpg
axle seal 4.jpg (42.93 KiB) Viewed 195 times
I'll drive my car for a week and see what transpires with the new seal and retaining bolts and nuts. Thanks again for the opinions and help.
Attachments
axle seal 2.jpg
axle seal 2.jpg (79.84 KiB) Viewed 195 times
Mike

1968 Standard Hardtop, Nordic Blue
302 F code, updated to 4V
Originally 1 of 2
ROTM May 2014
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3854
C.A.T.S. Classic Cougar Club member #16-10
CCOA member #9618

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